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Poster:
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Skobud |
Date:
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June 28, 2010 06:34:56am |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: DDP v.8 |
Thanks for the feedback on the cover Dr....The whole idea behind this fractal was Dark Star. Here is a link to the first Seven if you wanna take a look....
http://www.archive.org/iathreads/post-view.php?id=306633Im gonna definately listen to 12/12 again.
Everything I make is original. Obviously the idea is borrowed, but all of the graphics I create myself. Peace
This post was modified by Skobud on 2010-06-28 13:34:56
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Poster:
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grendelschoice |
Date:
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June 28, 2010 08:25:15am |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: DDP v.8 |
I also loved the clever cover (I did a double take, thinking there was a DP I had missed), and especially appreciate the recommendation of a DS that doesn't devolve into screeching feedback.
I recently posted asking for suggestions of pre-1980 DarkStars that maintained a more melodic, jazzy feel and avoided the kind of "deep space" rumbling that make me one of those you mentioned that get turned off by the tune.
Cliff recommended the excellent 10/31/71 from DP4 and that fit the bill nicely, but I'm always looking for others and will check this one out.
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Poster:
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micah6vs8 |
Date:
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June 28, 2010 12:04:19pm |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: DDP v.8 |
grendel , what are your thoughts on the 6 / 24 /70 DS ? Esp. the feelin' groovy part .
edit - excellent graphics Skobud . Thanks
This post was modified by micah6vs8 on 2010-06-28 19:04:19
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Poster:
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grendelschoice |
Date:
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June 28, 2010 01:08:39pm |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: DDP v.8 |
not sure I've heard that one, micah...will check it out tho and get back to you. (I love the "groovy" section of 10/31/71...some of the best Jerry riffs I've ever heard!)
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Poster:
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micah6vs8 |
Date:
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June 28, 2010 01:12:10pm |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: DDP v.8 |
Please do , I would like to know what you think
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Poster:
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jerlouvis |
Date:
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June 28, 2010 11:42:54am |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: DDP v.8 |
It might be just me but I can't understand why people would want or expect Dark Star to be more conventional to suit their tastes when it's essence is improvisational exploration.If you don't like dissonant or lengthy pieces,why not listen to a different song rather than expect a version that is more to your liking.It's tiresome to hear people say that would be really good if they would just stop all that brilliant improvisational jamming,play some nice calm music and by all means shorten it to something fitting for my miniscule attention span.That's what all the other songs are for.That is not feedback on the 72'-74 Dark Star's it is Jerry and the band playing very serious music,not noise made by electrical incongruities.That is insulting to the talents of the players involved.I know I'm not alone in the more dissonant and twisted the better and that's what Dark Star Playin' and the Other One are for.
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Poster:
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grendelschoice |
Date:
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June 28, 2010 12:59:03pm |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: DDP v.8 |
Have to agree to disagree. I don't mind at all the improv flights of jamming that charcterize most sections of Dark Star, but I find it hard to call the seriously dissonant, atonal feedback "scary" sections of DS anything other than just that--loud, annoying noise.
Look, it's part subjective to be sure...but as a "for example", I love everything about the first 18 minutes of the famous 11/11/73 Winterland DS, up until Jerry sings the fist verse...but then there's a bunch of Phil hitting loud bass notes against nothing else, followed by feedback noises (there really is nothing else to call it--after all, why do you think on 'Live/Dead' there's actually a track CALLED "feedback"--fact is, sometimes that's what they played...) and to me, that's not great improv jamming--it's just noise.
I'm not saying that's not part of what the band meant for Dark Star--the song says , in fact, to "dark star crashes, pouring its light into ashes", and I don't deny them their right to play a musical interpretation of that cosmic conflagration...but it is a conscious choice to do so on the '72-74 versions that I don't care for.
later versions did away with it altogether in favor of the more peaceful musical groove (12/31/78, 7/13/84 just to name 2), and a few examples exist as well from the pre-1980 says...I simply want to seek those out rather than spend 10 minutes listening to the boys sound like a bad parody of "Spinal Tap" doing their "free form improv" in front of a "festival crowd" when they tried out their "new direction" openeing for the puppet show.
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Poster:
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jerlouvis |
Date:
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June 28, 2010 02:49:52pm |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: DDP v.8 |
Far be it from me to presume to tell anyone what they should or should not like,but to make somewhat demeaning and what I feel are misleading statements about some of the bands best work in their best era deserved addressing.As from what I took from your response Grendel,is the parts you like are improv jamming and what you don't like is noise.Well to each his own but I don't find that to be a very enlightened perspective,or at all an actuality.As for what they did on the post 74' versions of Dark Star is of little consequence since the bands talent for that level of musical expression had totally evaporated into a haze of heroin,Heniken's and disinterest.For some of us those atonal,dissonant forays in Dark Star,Playin' and the Other One are what the band is truly all about.
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Poster:
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jerlouvis |
Date:
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June 28, 2010 04:50:49pm |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: DDP v.8 |
In response to why I think there is a track on Live/Dead called Feedback,to compare what the band did in the 60's with feedback and how they on occasion used it in their more freewheeling jams in the early 70's is not a logical comparison.There is a track on the album and many instances in the 60's of the guitarists forcing their instruments to feedback and all 3 of them making music of the resultant sounds ,that is not quite the same as Phil or Jer playing around with some feedback noises for a bit during an extensive improvisation,what I would call that is music not noise.
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Poster:
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grendelschoice |
Date:
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June 29, 2010 05:24:47am |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: DDP v.8 |
Not to get into a whole "thing" with you here, but it's hard to understand how you can say 'to each his own', and be upset that I've disparaged with 'misleading' statements the band's music re: parts of DS's from 72-74 when you then write a blanket judgment statement like this:
"...As for what they did on the post 74' versions of Dark Star is of little consequence since the bands talent for that level of musical expression had totally evaporated into a haze of heroin,Heniken's and disinterest."
That's pretty insulting and many here would argue unfair and misleading about the band's post 1974 output, DarkStar or otherwise...I would say the Winterland New Years '78 DarkStar stands up quite well and I doubt anyone who was there for the Berkeley '84 DS encore complained about a lack of interest...ditto the DS's that were revived w/Branford around 1990 and continued with fine contributions from Hornsby in 1991.
If you're offended that I don't like the dissonance that (in my view) mar sections of otherwise brilliant '72''74 Darkstars, that's fine...but to go on and dismiss the rest of the band's post 74 output shows a real and unfair bias the belies the facts. (not to mention that the band did many a drug prior to 1974 and Jerry himself was quoted often as saying some of those early shows were among the band's worst as a result.)
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Poster:
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jerlouvis |
Date:
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June 29, 2010 10:24:59am |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: DDP v.8 |
First of all I am neither upset nor offended by your opinions on the music we discussed since it makes no difference whatsoever to me.As for the comments about misleading and demeaning they were referring to another poster not you.As for the post 74' Dark Stars to compare that lot of lame shit to the brilliance that was pre-74' is laughable and not worthy of discussion.
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Poster:
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grendelschoice |
Date:
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June 29, 2010 01:07:58pm |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: DDP v.8 |
It's ALL worthy of discussion--it's the Dead!
Nothing wrong w/having varying viewpoints...I was listening to the Darkstar from 12/11/72 today and just as I suspected...I loved about half of it, and found the rest unlistenable.
And if you go and listen to that 12/31/78 Darkstar objectively and w/an open mind, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.
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Poster:
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Skobud |
Date:
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June 30, 2010 05:26:40am |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: DDP v.8 |
Jerlouvis
I am assuming you are talking about me and my use of "unintelligible feedback" again. I already explained what I meant to you once already. I'm not sure why you are now saying my post was "misleading and demeaning". Take a step back and read your own posts, you are taking my use of semantics in describing Dark Star waaaay to seriously. My opinion is not a reflection on you in any way. If you read what I wrote you will see we are in agreement, not at odds.
Perhaps we can agree that this is a great show and leave it at that?
This post was modified by Skobud on 2010-06-30 12:26:40
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Poster:
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jerlouvis |
Date:
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June 30, 2010 04:10:36pm |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: DDP v.8 |
Skobud,I only mentioned that post again to make a point to Grendel not to rekindle our discussion.I understood your point after your explanation.I'm not on any soapbox about not bad mouthing the band,I regularly demean most of their efforts post 74',it's just I feel that their playing on most Dark Stars between 72'-74' was exemplary and is one of the few instances I will challenge someone saying otherwise.I am in full agreement that it is a great show.Nov.-Dec. 72' to my ear is the band at it's best .
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Poster:
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Skobud |
Date:
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July 01, 2010 05:09:27am |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: DDP v.8 |
No worries jerlouvis. I agree with you for the most part about post 74 GD. I really dont listen to much. Peace.
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Poster:
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jerlouvis |
Date:
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June 30, 2010 04:10:36pm |
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Forum:
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GratefulDead
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Subject:
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Re: DDP v.8 |
Skobud,I only mentioned that post again to make a point to Grendel not to rekindle our discussion.I understood your point after your explanation.I'm not on any soapbox about not bad mouthing the band,I regularly demean most of their efforts post 74',it's just I feel that their playing on most Dark Stars between 72'-74' was exemplary and is one of the few instances I will challenge someone saying otherwise.I am in full agreement that it is a great show.Nov.-Dec. 72' to my ear is the band at it's best .
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